Pirates/MLB
Pittsburgh Pirates
Pirates off-season priority should be a Retool/Rebuild
When evaluating the Pirates, you have to look into lens of how the organization is ran.
Pirates GM Neal Huntington did not fail his ball club Monday by pretty much standing pat at the trade deadline in trading Tony Watson who has been all but gone for months as a pending free agent (Scott Boras client) and then adding 40 year old Joaquin Benoit to replace Watson as the setup man.
Benoit had his welcome to the Pirates moment Wednesday night.
Anybody can see this team had no chance of being a serious threat in the NL against the likes of the Dodgers, Nationals and the defending champion Cubs who are starting to find their stride and made a slew of moves to upgrade their roster for another run.
The Pirates were 8.5 games out of the wildcard as of Monday, now 9.5 games back following two straight losses to the Reds to open the current homestand.
If the Cubs didn’t have a first half hangover and boasted a record right now similar to the Nationals which is where they probably should be, the Pirates would be 12.5 games out of first in the Central, the amount of games back they will probably finish behind the Cubs by the time the regular season ends.
Pittsburgh enters Thursday 6.5 games out of first place and floundering in losing eight of their last 10 games.
“As we looked at other opportunities to add, we didn’t find good matches there,” Huntington said Monday evening on pretty much doing nothing to improve the club for the present or in the future. “We didn’t find appropriate fits. Same on the other side. We didn’t find the appropriate compelling moves to potentially take away from this club but add to future clubs.”
The Pirates were right not to be a buyer or seller at the deadline and take things to the off-season, but hard to believe they couldn’t find a market for a pending free agent like Juan Nicasio, a player on a cheap contract having the type of season that a team in the Pirates boat should be selling high on.
Where Huntington failed the 2017 club was the months leading up to Monday.
On the heels of losing Sean Rodriquez and Matt Joyce in free agency who combined for 31 home runs and 98 RBIs in 2016, there was no aggressiveness to bolster the bench even after it became clear before spring training that Jung Ho Kang was not going to be around.
That was in-excusable as it’s still in-excusable the Pirates have no outfield depth and never showed urgency in at least adding a quality 4th outfielder caliber of player during the Marte suspension.
These were all necessary depth moves that don’t cost the farm to make that needed to be made by April and May, not July 31.
Blame lack of financial ability?
The Pirates will end up saving around $9 million this season with the Starling Marte suspension, Jung Ho Kang not on the team, Jared Hughes being cut loose and the Tony Watson trade where they move his salary commitment for the rest of the season and are only paying $181,000 of Joaquin Benoit’s remaining salary.
Maybe blame bad spending? — John Jaso $4 million per season, Daniel Hudson $5.5 million per season, Antonio Bastardo $6.5 million, ect —
After three straight playoff appearances that included a 98-win season which was a heck of a feat, this is now an organization at a crossroads that lacks direction and lacks a plan.
What is the plan?
The Pirates have an owner in Bob Nutting who hasn’t adjusted to the times that is problem No. 1.
To sign mid-tier pitchers like a J.A. Happ, you have to spend $13-$14 million per season. Pittsburgh is still operating in that $7-$8 million per range which was what it cost to sign those type of pitchers four to five years ago.
The year is now 2017 Bob.
It’s easy to say the Pirates should go out today and offer Andrew McCutchen a 4 year, $80 million extension which in reality would be pocket change for Bob Nutting.
Yet, there’s no chance Neal Huntington will be given that authority. The Pirates still operate that no player is worth 20% of their payroll, especially a player in his 30’s. If the Pirates gave McCutchen $20 million per season, Bob Nutting wouldn’t wake up and tell Neal Huntington he now has a $120-$125 million payroll to work with.
After the deadline, Huntington continued to tout that he really likes this core.
But, this core is not just a tweak or two away from competing with the Cubs, Dodgers and Nationals next season.
Pirates management are the type that always project ahead. Three years ago they envisioned a group of 3-4 high-end prospects being key contributors by this point that would keep what the Pirates were building in 2013 and 2014 moving forward.
That projection/plan hasn’t panned out that now has the Pirates operating with no plan.
Pittsburgh has seen a lot of talent leave town since 2015 for nothing that hasn’t been replaced. They always believed that talent would be replaced internally before they had to move on from some of their core where the clock is now ticking on the likes of McCutchen and others.
If the owner isn’t going to stretch the payroll to let you add to the core (which is very unlikely), the Pirates have two options:
1. Retool/Rebuild during the off-season and move assets like Andrew McCutchen, Gerrit Cole, Jordy Mercer in the winter who have 2 years or less of control.
Or
2. Get aggressive with trades by moving high-end prospects for impact players with control than moving those players with control in a couple years before they hit free agency.
The second option, though, is running out for the Pirates when it comes to adding to this current group. This should have been the executed plan the last two years but for whatever reason the General Manager has showed an unwillingness to go this route.
Would bringing in a new General Manager who isn’t so in love with his own system open the flood gates for the Pirates to go option 2 this off-season?
Probably, but that’s not a route the Pirates are expected to take and despite a very bad 2017 in constructing the MLB roster, I still lean for now in the direction that the Pirates have an owner problem and not a GM problem, though, scrutiny towards Huntington is warranted on the job he’s done this season but the body of work doesn’t warrant a firing just yet.
Attendance, TV ratings are way down for the Pirates and to much of the fan base, 2013-2015 seems so long ago.
The Pirates starting with Huntington need to develop plan before the end of the season, execute it and begin selling it to the fan base.
Unless a new owner is coming through the door, a retool/short rebuild by selling high to trade popular players like Andrew McCutchen, Gerrit Cole this winter is about the only way to go and hope the young pitching talent in the system from the likes of Mitch Keller, Tyler Glasnow can make it a quick retool.
Going into a retool/rebuild would see the Pirates endure a lot of PR pain but it would be the quickest way to getting things back to 2013-2015 again because Bob Nutting is never going to treat owning the Pirates as a hobby like many other owners do.
If he did Jay Bruce would have been a Pirate on July 20.
The Pirates will continue to be treated like one of his businesses and no matter who the GM is will continue to have his hands tied.
To read this insider news, subscribe to get “Inside Access”!
Updated – Top 5 worst TIOPS members:
1) Sam the virginal man
2) Sam’s other account
3) Maloni
4) Samaloni
5) Sam the bandwagon man
Honorable mentions: Simply Dusty, Eric, Hockey11 (aka Yoda), anyone who actually pays for this garbage site with no original content and only comes on here to read another members unsolicited list of the worst members that ultimately ends up shltting on them.
Ole “Hockey11” disappeared mighty quickly after he was outed.
I like that he tried to disguise himself with the persistent use of all caps.
He’s very subtle, yes.
Why doesn’t Sam’s mom post here anymore? I enjoyed her yelling at tou guys sticking up for Sam when he was being made fun of. I forget her name….Sam, what was it again?
3 articles in 2.5 weeks. This must really suck for any French weirdo who has multiple accounts. Clearly dont know the worth you money.
Man this Toronto crowd is loud for smack down got to love being Canadian always passionate and loud in any event. Specially louder then Americans I guess answer is simple those fat slobs down south of our border are too busy eating then paying attention to any event that they attend yet you have Arrogant donut boy stain claiming bell center is a museum. That fat fuckk must be on high meds
WWE… massive US conglomerate that was so innovated that it bought and put out of business all rival regional promotions and even fought of WCW while touring all over the world but primarily in the US carried by 2 Americans in Dx, a Texas Rattlesnake and the greatest of them all a Brahma Bull!
Now that the scripts are PG for 6 year olds to safely watch the sammich is allowed to stay up late for a smack down taping and decided to talk about it… moron
Specially, last I checked.
He posted pretty much the same exact message last night. It didn’t make sense, so he felt the need to post it again. I wonder if McDavid well attend their show in Vancouver.
I didn’t get that either. I thought a bunch of posts were deleted. Nope. Same posted the same shitt nobody cared about a day ago again. That’s our sam! Hey Sammich – why don’t you quit with the repeat posts, and maybe try taking a shower for a change. Buying some deodorant. Something.
Not only I take shower I also take French bath yes FRENCH bath not American Bath. Probably American bath is jumping in mud and play in it bunch of fat pigs
“Typically, a modern French bath is done at one’s bathroom sink in their private home. It usually entails washing of the lower genitals/private parts with soap and water.” – This is also known as a whores bath
He learned this from his mother but doesnt understand you need to fuckk someone 1st
This is so good. Sam admits he basically washes his virgin balls in a mcdonalds bathroom at the sink
French bath = “more cologne – they can’t smell your disgusting BO if you cover it with cologne”
*innovative
Edzo has colon cancer.
Just read that. Terrible news.
Sam scuffs his hot dog to the thought of Justin Trudeau.
Specially. Last I checked.
Got to love watching wrestling time to time specially when it’s in Canada at least fans are more passionate and louder. Unlike the fat fuckss on South of the border. Napping during the event after scuffing bunch of hot dogs and making a museum atmosphere
Lol really reaching here fat Sam.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/514ihCbuJ6L._SX333_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
This is gold. First Gaydoggs bar now this lol.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2224/2112760833_f6c7e9d210_b.jpg
“Dusty and me were like peas and carrots again”
“Specially”
https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1345636-30-sidney-crosby-facts-to-celebrate-his-30th-birthday
enjoy Stain
The left out fact 31, whereby you repeatedly finger his assshole while lying about most topics, and then hide when you’re called on it.
Sammich… how much detail to you think you could describe the taste of Crosbys balls in?
The team gets within 2 of the division, then go out and suck on the west coast (pretty sure i called 2-6 if you go back to an instant buzz post on them). Should they have added? YES. But is management to blame for them being terrible against sub.500 teams??? That is the part I am missing. They put together a team good enough to beat the cubs, but not good enough to compete w/padres and giants? Are the players responsible for anything?
Huntington: Part of Pirates’ problem vs. losing teams is ‘the talent I put on the field’
And you would prefer he what? Say its all the players fault? Glad you bring that up though, at least he is accountable for what he puts on the field, which is garbage.
I don’t prefer he do anything. I dropped out of baseball years ago. just addressing your post. you asked “But is management to blame for them being terrible against sub.500 teams???” according to Huntington, the answer is ‘yes.’
The teams inconsistency is rooted in its lack of impact players and depth behind them. If one/two guys are off/injured, the team isnt deep enough to pick them up. Thats managements fault. Thinking they can win without a bullpen is also their fault.
Winning is not a priority. You can root for the team, but defending this management after theyve shown their true colors time and again, is not something you should waste time on.
This reeks of “i know management should have got someone better than Vogelsong, but you know what, he coulda pitched better too!”
anything to troll, eh stanch… you’re recalling the year you through a hissy fit over Jake Goebbert and I simply stated it was a minor league signing (pretty sure Goebbert never ended up wearing the pirate uniform). Last year I gave them a pass and they fell out in August. This year I am actually agreeing with you, they should have done more….. this post is just highlighting that it must be good to be a pirate player, even if you play like crap, Pittsburgh will just blame the front office.
Yeah. Last year. THAT’S when you gave them a pass.
the 3 previous years they made playoffs. Excuse me, the post season, when everyone said they didnt do enough… last year they used up the good will…. to think they didnt do enough and accidentally won 98 games is a little nieve, no?
Their replacement plan for AJ Burnett and JA Happ, 2/5 of a 98 win teams rotation, was Ryan For Fux Sake Vogelsong and converted SP turned RP turned SP turned RP Juan Nicasio. Thats disgusting.
When 98 wins doesn’t even get you into the playoffs, I’d say no – they didn’t do enough. At least they got to play the toss up play in game though.
So only way to tell if a team did enough was weather or not they get past the wildcard? 98 wins is pretty impressive, but they didn’t win so I can see your logic. I would just add that if this team somehow wins the division, you can’t say they didn’t do enough regardless of their record. If they only need 85 wins and that gets them a division crown, based on Stanchion logic you would have to applaud the front office, right? (BTW hasnt the toss up game winner gone on to win the WS something like 4 of… Read more »
If they win the division with 85 wins, you applaud the other teams GMs.
That Mr Box Score shitstain never disappoints with his logic
And this right here is why I don’t even have to answer – because if Sam agrees with you, we know you’re retarded.
I think the major difference between me and you is that you’re basically a capitals fan. Celebrating your regular season achievements like they mean something. Go raise your 98 wins banner. See? I don’t have to do that, because the teams I respect and admire do what it takes and actually win meaningful things. The Pirates, through all of their resurgence, haven’t even won a division. Put that on a t-shirt. Wear it proudly, Benny.
And right there you show lack of reading comprehension.. I said I can see your logic to giving no credit to 98 wins (second sentence of that post). Not that I was raising a banner. I asked a question, (which admittedly is huge hypothetical) do wins matter? Because what you CANNOT DO is say 98 wins doesn’t matter bc the division was strong and they didn’t win the division. But If they do win the division with 85 wins say they don’t do enough, just got lucky the division sucked. I am sure that just made your head spin, so… Read more »
They matter relative to the season they’re won in, apparently. My head isn’t spinning – more befuddled by why the number 98 gives you wood, when it ultimately meant nothing. Yes – 85 wins, a division title, and winning a playoff round shitts all over 98 wins and no playoff games every time. Unless you’re a caps fan – then you just lament what “could have been.”
#98 is significant (to me anyhow) because in Huntingtons era (2006-present), that win total would have won the division 8 out of 10 years. With last years cubs (103) and the 2015 cards (100) the only central teams to have done it. Unfortunately the 98 wins came in 2015. YOU’RE RIGHT that its relative to the season. Just want to make sure if they pull off a miracle this year, you don’t come back with “they got lucky the division sucked.” They got unlucky the year they won 98, which unfortunately translates to didn’t do enough in 2015.
Yeah yeah – if they had done it the other years, this and that. If Sammy Sosa had hit 66 HRs in 1997, he wouldn’t have had to play second fiddle to McGwire. If Lemieux wasn’t injured in 89-90, he probably would have broken Gretzky’s point streak. And if your aunt had balls, she’d be your uncle. It doesn’t matter. It didn’t happen. Why would I care if they get lucky? I’m not opposed to them winning. But doing so would be in spite of anything management has done. In spite of them pocking roughly $9.5M between Kang’s salary, 1/2… Read more »
Happy birthday to the best player of the world. Since some local bandwagon fans have no clue.
Is it McDavid’s birthday? I wonder how Vancouver is celebrating.
Such as? Who legitimately doesn’t think Sid is the games top player? Despite how close McDavid to taking the crown… if he hasn’t already, who out here actually didn’t think Sid was the best player in hockey the last decade?
59 days till opening night.
Go away Sam.
Just in case you bandwagons don’t know where is the Stanley Cup today. It’s with Crosby in rimouski quebec.
That matters.
Ok…
And actually you fucked this up too… he was in Nova Scotia for the day, he’s taking the cup to Rimouski tomorrow. You can’t do anything right… at all. Shut the fuckk up
http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/sidney-crosby-welcomes-stanley-cup-to-halifax-for-hometown-celebration-1.3535038
I like how he brags about a player who plays in the United States and lives in another province bringing a cup to Quebec. Sid has no ties there whatsoever. He just treats it like the charity case it is.
I know your hockey just started since 09 when pens won their first cup with sid. But last I checked sid played some hockey in Quebec.
Last you checked, Dallas and Tampa Bay were failing franchises, then you were proven wrong and hid for 3 weeks because you afraid you got caught in a lie. Nobody believes you and your french bullshitt. Last I checked.
Lol, shuuut the fuuuuck up… ya he played jr hockey in PQ partly because it was closest to home and helped groom him further offensively because the Q generally plays a softer higher pace game vs the other 2 C leagues! Point is who fucken cares
F-U zeroTOOL hope you are happy with your boy toy Justin Trudeau doing everything to make montreal become a Shithole then u have the Ballz to say quebec is bad . yeah because of people like you voting for liberals you dumb fuckk
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/montrealers-welcome-asylum-seekers-from-u-s-1.3535238
Hahaha, all of Canada is welcoming the people that fear deportation due to some curious policies by the man who you idolize in your photo you moron. Sammich, you understand politics and economics far less than you do hockey so just save yourself the embarrassment and stay on “the inside of Montreal… s empty arena sports” with the other choads haha.
Also, as I noted in the post below, you were just bragging that your Liberal premiere and Finance minister helped turn the unemployment rate to historical lows and now you’re shitting on that group again. You’re a walking contradiction dipshit! We are all laughing at you…
Now enough with Canadian, more so Montreal/PQ, politics. No one here cares and you are, as usual, in over your head.
We know you can’t talk hockey without looking like a complete idiot… why do you want everyone to see how much less you understand anything else?
Hey sammich, got another thing for you… why don’t you explain to the class who the premier of your province is, which party leads and by proxy where the finance ministers, and architect of this low unemployment rates, politics lie… this should be fun chasing your tail for awhile lol.
While you’re at it tell us about the finance minister, where he was born and his immigration status
Basically sammich sharing his “provincial win” is a glorious exercise in hypocrisy by the sammich as he lauds the work of his Liberal government and immigrant finance minister while shit talking “democrats” and foreigners ad nauseum out here hahaha, what a fucken fool…. owned again sammich now go crawl back under your rock for a few days.
Just thumbs down you fucken coward? Next time keep your fucken mouth shut. This behaviour of running your mouth and then hiding is so pathetic
He’s just following the family tradition of getting owned. His mom gets owned by black men, his dad gets owned by all men and he gets owned by zerocool.
hey zeroTOOL enjoy
http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/quebec-unemployment-rate-drops-to-lowest-since-1976-1.3533625
while alberta is going the opposite direction
Montreal sucks.
So does your mom fatso
No one cares about Montreal. You’re a perfect example of my no one takes those frogs seriously.
Maybe sam is a virgin because he just can’t deal with the smell. Those frogs rarely shower.
Lol, Albertas economy is about to become the strongest in the country again you stupid **** lol.
But the good news is you can finally get your own job and stop relying on your moms blow job money to maintain your three accounts
http://calgaryherald.com/business/local-business/alberta-passes-b-c-to-reclaim-lead-in-canadian-growth-survey
That’s right sammich, we are still carrying your ass!
Virginal bandwagon owned again!
Zzzzzzzzzz
Benny must be thumbing down Succo posts.
That fucking lemming.
If you can barely afford to field a contender with Andrew McCutchen on a sweetheart deal, leaving your budget wide f’ing open, how on earth does signing him for $20M per season make any sense? He’s a great player. I love the guy. I wish he would be here for life. But given the realities of how this team operates, signing him (while looking like an amazing goodwill gesture to the fans) is, in reality, a white flag that you don’t plan on winning a World Series for the duration of his contract. That’s not hyperbole. That’s a fact.
Latest TIOPS Buzz: Organization at a cross-roads that lacks Direction and a Plan
http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/doesnt_make_any_sense_anchorman.gif
subheader: d’s off-season priority should be a retool / rebuild
How different would things be if Mark Cuban had actually bought the team years ago………..
Not tremendously different. The people who think that Cuban would have come in and just spent whatever it took to win a WS are just flat out delusional. Cuban is a businessman he doesn’t get involved in anything to lose money. Would he have spent more than Nutting? Probably but they would still operate on a budget that would be determined by team revenues, which by the way are in the bottom half of the league and always will be.
I liked this article when Paul Zeise wrote it on FUCKlNG MONDAY
Yeah the poor bench is why we suck. We suck because we can’t beat SF, Cincy and SD. I’ve never seen a team crap the bed against horrible teams. They are 1-8 against Cincy this year. They also are fundamentally horrible as well. I loved the rundown play the other night when no one covered 2nd base. The nerd owner projects losing every time he speaks. Sad organization. Sad.
I guess we have the Pens and Steelers. There’s bound to be one turd out of the 3.
Did you just call Bob Nutting a “turd??”
Why I outa…..just because he looks and acts that way is no reason to say that about him!!
Right on sad but true